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| 41175 | STU_MBREEDY  | RELIGION             | 01/22/92 | 01/28/92 |
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| Description: Reply to 41164: Reply to 41140: Some evidence        |
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to the goob (and anyone else who's reading)--
 
     Unfortunately, I don't have enough time to thoroughly explain
     the Lord, Liar, Lunatic argument.  However, you did bring up one
     point that I would like to expound upon.  That point was about
     there being no proof for Jesus' ressurrection.  True, as I stated
     before, no one will be able to prove or disprove whether Jesus
     really did return from the grave.  But here is some more evidence
     to consider...
 
     It is common historical knowledge that Jesus did exist, and was
     crucified on a Roman cross and buried in a tomb.  In addition,
     records indicated that the tomb was found empty shortly thereafter
     and many people claimed to have spoken, eaten, and walked with him
     after his death.  If Christ was not ressurrected, what other
     explanations are there?
 
1)  Thieves stole the body.
    The tomb was guarded by Roman soldiers to prevent the body from
    being stolen.  In addition, the burial clothes (loaded with spices
    to preserve the body) were left in the tomb.  They would be strange
    grave robbers to fight Roman soldiers to steal a naked corpse and
    leave the only thing of value, the clothing, in the tomb.  In
    addition, this does not explain why many people claimed to have seen
    Jesus and also why 11 men were killed for stating that they had seen
    Jesus and that he lives.
 
2)  The Roman or Jewish authorities stole the body.
    The authorities posted a guard to keep the body buried.  Why would
    they want to remove it?  When Christianity was first proclaimed, it
    was a threat to the Jewish powers of the day.  Since the new
    teaching was based on the idea that Jesus rose from the dead, it
    would have been a simple matter for the Roman or Jewish authorities
    to produce the body and squash Christianity.  Since they did not do
    this, the only logical response is that they did not have the body.
 
3)  Jesus' disciples stole it.
    The discipline levels of Roman troops exceed greatly those imposed
    on troops today (I'm in the Army--trust me, I know) so we may assume
    the guards were alert.  This means that the disciple would have to
    fight the soldiers to get the body, and they weren't trained
    soldiers, so they wouldn't have had much chance at winning.  Even
    more, 11 of the 12 disciples were killed for their belief that Jesus
    rose from the dead.  People will die for what they believe is true,
    even if in reality it is false.  But few people will die for a known
    lie.

In addition, none of them "broke" to the authorities to save their own
lives. That takes some serious conviction.  Also, it wasn't just the
disciples who claimed to have seen Jesus.  This means that they would
have had to convince others to join in the deception, for which they
would have no motive for maintaining.
 
4)  Jesus was not actually dead when he was buried and left on his own.
    Please.  How could someone who had been crucified, stabbed with a
    spear, beaten and needing medical attention manage to struggle from
    his shrouds and pushed aside a stone that three healthy women could
    not move (Mark 16:3)?  Then he would have had to walk several miles,
    meet with his disciples, claimed to be risen, hung around for about
    a month, then wandered off and died in solitude. No one ever found
    the body.  Hardly a convincing argument.
 
     So there you have it.  Like I said, not "proof", but it isn't bad
     evidence either.
 
Matt